does that then at all give credence to iran's claims that they developed nuclear power for energy? >> well, the iranians aren't doing that because we've been catching them in all sorts of experiments that are only useful for a weapons program. north korea and iran have had this joint program on missiles and nukes for more than a decade and we've seen these transfers of technology. they're only useful for military purposes. and so clearly iran is not going for a civilian program. if they wanted a civilian program, they would have been doing many other different things and they'd be more willing to talk to the international community about what they're doing, not trying to hide their facilities. >> here is a bottom line question, gordon. do you think north korea would actually launch a nuclear attack against the united states? i mean -- >> no, no. and the reason they wouldn't do it is because we would know where it came from and we would retaliate immediately. the thing that people in washington are concerned about is not an airmailed nuke, but really a weapon that has been smuggled